AFBL Forum
Winter Meetings => Topics and Ideas Discussion => Topic started by: mstreeter06 on April 04, 2015, 08:31:57 am
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I have been thinking about how much the league comes to a stand still during the Ammy Draft (usually 2 or 3 real weeks).
What about if we move the Ammy Draft date to June 1st and have the Ammy Draft Pool plus International FAs revealed on February 1st (or close to that)? Then have the Ammy Draft ongoing during Spring Training, April, and May. This would give us nearly 3 real life weeks to get the draft done. We would still use the same method for draft order just from the most recent season.
Any thoughts about this or should we keep the draft on Nov 15th?
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anything to speed up the nevernding offseason
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good idea.
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I'm still testing this out but it is very likely that the Ammy Draft date will move from November 15th of the current season to June 1st of the next season.
If this happens and it is 99% likely this will work, the 2024 Amateur Draft would be moved from November 15th, 2024 until June 1st, 2025 with the Ammy Draft pool and International Free Agent amateurs revealed on February 2nd/3rd, 2025. We would use the 2024 season standings and postseason results for the draft order just like normal.
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I like this. We can push through seasons faster and do the draft over a longer stretch of time.
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New here, but the idea of drafting while running the rest of the sims doing spring training and the first part of the season works well in other leagues I have been a part of.
The only thing I've noticed is that sometimes a player's ratings will drop from the time the pool is introduced and the draft begins in StatsLab vs. the time when the draft finishes and is input into the game. Suppose it could work where you get a rating improvement in that time period, too, and it's part of the game either way, just note that the ratings that get loaded into StatsLab at Feb in-game won't necessarily be the same when the player is added to the rosters on June 1st. in-game.
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New here, but the idea of drafting while running the rest of the sims doing spring training and the first part of the season works well in other leagues I have been a part of.
The only thing I've noticed is that sometimes a player's ratings will drop from the time the pool is introduced and the draft begins in StatsLab vs. the time when the draft finishes and is input into the game. Suppose it could work where you get a rating improvement in that time period, too, and it's part of the game either way, just note that the ratings that get loaded into StatsLab at Feb in-game won't necessarily be the same when the player is added to the rosters on June 1st. in-game.
That is true but I think like you said that's all a part of the game of baseball
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Sounds good to me
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Slight update and change to the new Ammy Draft date after I realized that the College season goes through June...
I'm double checking things now in a test world of AFBL but I'm planning on moving the High School and College seasons to start March 1st from April 1st, move the Ammy Draft from June 1st to July 10th, and the Draft Pool and International FAs reveal to April 1st. This will keep the HS season at 50 games and the COL season at 100 games.
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In season draft makes sense. Would the R level teams have a later season start, or do the drafted players just have to wait that extra season to play?
If this happens and it is 99% likely this will work, the 2024 Amateur Draft would be moved from November 15th, 2024 until June 1st, 2025
Doesn't this mean players will lose a year of minors development?
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In season draft makes sense. Would the R level teams have a later season start, or do the drafted players just have to wait that extra season to play?
They would just join whatever level of minors you chose in progress since all levels play until September at some point.
Doesn't this mean players will lose a year of minors development?
I'm leaning toward having the 2024 Ammy Draft this July 10 with some version of a weighted draft lottery so we don't miss an Ammy Draft.
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We need to decide one way or the other for the Ammy Draft date move or to keep it where it has been. We've been having a discussion in GroupMe (join us if you aren't there :D) and I need to hear more from the league.
If we move the draft to midseason (July 10th), the first draft we do this would result in having a 1-time weighted draft lottery with the non-playoffs teams in one tier (picks 1-12) and the playoffs teams in their own tier with weighed odds for picks 13-20.
Moving the draft would speed things up about 2 real life weeks and give us from April 1 until the All-Star Break which is about 3.5 real life weeks to finish 8 rounds of drafting.
I'm completely fine with either decision but we need to decide either way. With the uncertainty about this, I'm leaning toward keeping things as they are for 2024 and discussing this over the 2024 season to decide on for 2025.
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My thoughts have been spelt out in groupme, but for clarity, here they are.
I strongly believe that it's not broken so we shouldn't try to fix it.
Put a constant timer on the draft, moving from 24hrs per pick for the first 2 rnds, to 12hrs for rnds 3-5 and 8hrs to rnds 6-8 AND, the most important part, as soon as you have picked send a group email to ALL GMs saying "Team X is on the clock". We then set a draft MUST be finished by day X, and just auto all picks not made, you should then see guys pick up their game next draft. Remember that every RL week is only 3 sims, so having a draft deadline of 14 days after the regular season ends (or after the playoffs end) is not very many 'missed' sims.
We should then have the draft done we with is suggested above and it doesn't have to move. It's the responsibilities of each GM to think of his other GMs, I know that I, being in Australia, try as much as I can to set a list of at least as many players I'll need if the draft is likely to get to me before I go to sleep, so that the draft doesn't hold up for others - it's simple draft etiquette, if you're unlikely to be available, set a list - it doesn't have to be 20 players deep.
Also, by moving the draft and having a lottery there is NO fair way, just a random way of distributing the picks.
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We're going to just keep the Ammy Draft in November at least for 2024 and likely beyond.
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I really think we need to revisit this topic especially after this draft dragging on.
The first moved draft would be an unique one on the process but after that it would be great.
Move the draft to June or July in game which would give us several weeks to get the draft finished without slowing us down like usual in the offseason.
Thoughts?
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What is so hard to create lists in Statslab people. >:(
Matt should not have to spend time changing the timing for the lazy.
1st round 6hrs, after 1 hr. It is not that hard to stay on top of this if it is important to you. If not, just auto draft.
So, if you get my tone, leave it alone.
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Amen brother
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A few thoughts. If we do move it the only year the draft order is an issue is next year. Beyond that it goes by the previous season standings. Only reason that doesn't work next draft is it doubles up on this year's standings. So if anything we'd need to agre on how to structure next seasons order.
Also if your picks has been going for six hours the commish should auto pick it period regardless. If you are going to be stuck at work set a list. As helpful as Matt is I am sure as a back up you could give him positions of need in case your list gets used up. But if you know how far off your pick is its not that tough to make a list. If you choose not to you get what you get. I might even reduce to four or five hours.
If we do move it Id just suggest records to date next year. Lotteries are too fickle. Worst team needs the most help. Stands to reason.
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I don't mind moving it but why do we need a lottery? I'm not a fan of the lottery part and would vote against this for that reason.
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If we did move it to the middle of the season, the issue would be how to set the draft order for the 1st moved draft.
For example, if the 2025 Draft was moved from November 2025... we could either skip the 2025 Draft or hold the 2025 Draft in June/July 2025 but what order would we use is the issue.
If the draft does get moved to the middle of the season, the first draft moved would be the only issue but it would likely be worth it for the drafts onward.
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I was in a league where non playoff teams were in a lottery. That was fun.
I'd be cool moving it as long as we have the order thing hammered out before hand.
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i think it makes more sense to draft for a set period of time then autoing it, but im sure i have said that 3 times already.
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No decision will be made on this for this offseason. I need to think about how to best handle the situation either with improving our current situation or if moved to the middle of the season the best way to do it.
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I like BaseballAddict's suggestion of using "records to date" whenever we move the draft up.
And just so I understand this correctly, we're not ACTUALLY talking about moving the draft date? Just the pool announcement date, and then using the extra time from the pool announcement to the end of the playoffs to draft in statslab. Then the draft results are still entered in in November. Is that correct?
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How about this suggestion for whenever we move the draft forward;
Begin the draft after 81 games, using the standings through the first 81 games of the season.
Then, run the following year's draft based on the standings of games 82-162 (ignore playoff finish for that one year).
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How about this suggestion for whenever we move the draft forward;
Begin the draft after 81 games, using the standings through the first 81 games of the season.
Then, run the following year's draft based on the standings of games 82-162 (ignore playoff finish for that one year).
SO one year slpit season basicly
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Yep.
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How about just not moving it, it's fine where it is.
Anyone who who is auto'd for one pick is set to full auto until they decide to change it.
I am completely against an 'extra draft' - it throws out the talent balance for future years and there is no 'fair' way to run it.
We also trade draft picks into the future so they quality of the draft can't be manually tampered with.
Just remember, it's not the draft that's broken, it's GMs taking too much time. Come up with solutions to fix the real problem, the real problem isn't when the draft is held.
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But if we move the draft date, and set it so the pool comes out at the same time as today, we have longer to run the draft in stats lab, resulting in less simming of the last few rounds. Some people do like to control their entire draft. And we don't have to hold up the season.
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Yeah Mike, there's no additional draft. We're just starting the drafting sooner, so figuring out the draft order the first time we do it is tricky.
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Just brainstorming for a potential move of the draft to June/July timeframe...
What if we move the 2025 Ammy Draft from November 15, 2025 to possibly July 1st, 2026 and use the 2025 season results draft order. Would this not work?
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we'd lose an entire draft, though. no draft in 2025. i'd move it up and find a way to do the order. to do standings seems the best.
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we'd lose an entire draft, though. no draft in 2025. i'd move it up and find a way to do the order. to do standings seems the best.
I wonder how easy it would be to adjust the settings to allow us not to lose anyone from the feeder leagues. I think that would be the only problem if we just used the traditional draft order for 2025, not draft in November 2025, and draft in July 2026 on the new schedule.
We could start drafting during Spring Training (March) and hold the draft during the season up until July. Then when the draft date in the game comes in sometime in July we can have the feeder leagues be wrapped up with their seasons and be ready to join their drafted clubs.
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works for me
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Here here
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/I'm going to use a business analogy:
If an employee of mine is taking too much time to do the task (using a system that is known to work - and works for others) - I sit with that employee and work out why they are taking longer and look to retrain/upskill the employee - if that doesn't work I change the employee. I don't go and change the process to do the task.
What we're doing by suggesting to move the draft is saying "we're happy to have lazy GMs who don't check how the draft is going (one of the main responsibilities of being a GM IMO), and we'll gladly make changes to accommodate them"
What should be happening is the first 12 picks are done before the Championship series is completed. Typically what happens is the team drafting first takes 3 days to draft as there's no timer or impetus on them to draft, then the 2nd pick takes 2 more days and so on. Start slow continue slow.. start fast and at least set the scene for others to follow.
Yes, I am still against moving the draft for 2 reasons:
1. There is no fair way to create the draft order (lottery doesn't work, a tiered or weighted lottery doesn't work either, last season's standings is definitely not fair)
2. We're changing a system to accommodate our weakest link as a league (The GMs who don't pick in a timely fashion)
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The draft was set up in Statslab on June 1st. We ended the draft on June 10th. It's summer. People go on vacation. If I had left on May 31st (Sunday is a pretty normal day to leave for a vacation) and came back on June 7th (Sunday to Sunday is a pretty normal vacation schedule) I would have never had a chance to set up a list, set my self to auto pick, nothing.
Why should we squeeze 8 or 10 rounds of a draft into 10 real life days? Especially right now when people are out of town a lot. What does it hurt to take 30 real life days to draft?
This isn't a business. It's a game. Supposed to be relaxed and fun. Yes, we all have responsibilities as GMs and one of them is to draft, but we don't have shareholders to please. We don't need to do this a breakneck speed.
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/I'm going to use a business analogy:
If an employee of mine is taking too much time to do the task (using a system that is known to work - and works for others) - I sit with that employee and work out why they are taking longer and look to retrain/upskill the employee - if that doesn't work I change the employee. I don't go and change the process to do the task.
What we're doing by suggesting to move the draft is saying "we're happy to have lazy GMs who don't check how the draft is going (one of the main responsibilities of being a GM IMO), and we'll gladly make changes to accommodate them"
What should be happening is the first 12 picks are done before the Championship series is completed. Typically what happens is the team drafting first takes 3 days to draft as there's no timer or impetus on them to draft, then the 2nd pick takes 2 more days and so on. Start slow continue slow.. start fast and at least set the scene for others to follow.
Yes, I am still against moving the draft for 2 reasons:
1. There is no fair way to create the draft order (lottery doesn't work, a tiered or weighted lottery doesn't work either, last season's standings is definitely not fair)
2. We're changing a system to accommodate our weakest link as a league (The GMs who don't pick in a timely fashion)
I get what you're saying, but I would like to move the draft because then I could actually attempt to make trades in the first round. As it is now, playoff teams cannot trade active players with anyone at a vital moment in the draft. You want 12 picks finished before the LCS? At this point, any blockbuster deal I want to offer or attempt to get is now off the table completely.
I'm also not willing to have pending trades when there are players still playing. Injuries, losing/gaining massive skill points, and players going on significant hot/cold streaks can affect a trade too much.
We might as well be doing something other than sitting around. This would also allow those who want to spend a greater amount of time deciding on their pick to do more research. We will be able to get through more seasons this way too. It keeps a flow that can be beneficial to everyone involved. This is not a business and I want to have fun with it.
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I agree regarding the comments about breakneck speed, however it seems that is what nearly everyone who wants to move the draft is complaining about.
I'm fine with the speed we're taking to draft (OK, it's possibly a touch slow but nothing to be too concerned about IMO).
I was putting forward a point of view that IF speed is the issue, deal with the speed of GMs.
If someone can develop a truly fair draft order for a draft that moves to a mid-year date, I'm happy to jump in the camp that suggests moving it.
One thought I have is this on a fair-ish system:
- Move the draft to 1 day after the AFBL championship (or the week after)
- Create the draft order based on standings at the All Star break (we then drop the rule that the AFBL champ picks last)
- This gives us from All Star break until end of the championship to draft
- The following draft is then based on end of season results (the AFBL champ picking last rule can be reinstated) and the draft can move to mid-year or stay at the end of the year
At least this way we likely end up with two different orders for the next two drafts that are based on team results.
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we'd lose an entire draft, though. no draft in 2025. i'd move it up and find a way to do the order. to do standings seems the best.
I wonder how easy it would be to adjust the settings to allow us not to lose anyone from the feeder leagues. I think that would be the only problem if we just used the traditional draft order for 2025, not draft in November 2025, and draft in July 2026 on the new schedule.
We could start drafting during Spring Training (March) and hold the draft during the season up until July. Then when the draft date in the game comes in sometime in July we can have the feeder leagues be wrapped up with their seasons and be ready to join their drafted clubs.
I still think this would work but no decision will be made for this offseason. Tabled until 2025 Winter Meetings for official voting. Discussion will remain open over the 2025 Regular Season.
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I'm moving that we continue to find a solution to move the draft date to July from November. There have been several suggestions in this thread so I'm sure there is a way we can figure this out.
This would solve the long periods of inactivity for the league as a whole during the offseason plus allow us to add additional rounds of the draft with the additional HS feeder schools being added in phases.
Any suggestions or thoughts about how to deal with the 1 season's draft that would be affected by the move? I'm open to whatever seems like the majority decides with either some type of lottery or something similar to Mike (NJ)'s suggestion 2 posts above or something else entirely.
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I like Mike's suggestion. Do the 2027 draft based on the 2027 mid season standings at the end of the season. Do the 2028 draft in June of 2028 based on the final standings in 2027. Moving forward the drafts based on the previous seasons standings and draft held in June...
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I like Mike's suggestion. Do the 2027 draft based on the 2027 mid season standings at the end of the season. Do the 2028 draft in June of 2028 based on the final standings in 2027. Moving forward the drafts based on the previous seasons standings and draft held in June...
Seems reasonable to me.
I am all for the draft being midseason to avoid this long lull between sims.
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I want us to find a solution so we can move the Draft from the offseason to midseason.
My thoughts would be to move the 2028 draft from November 2028 to July 2029 and use the 2028 season results.
The only issue I can think of is how do we not lose the COL feeder players that wouldn't be eligible to return back to school. I wonder if we temporarily change the max age in our COL feeder league before we roll from 2027 to 2028 if that would help this? We could also allow a double pool of International Free Agents temporarily?
Any thoughts? I know this would be the best option for our league so we can avoid these 2 week down periods during the offseason plus allow teams to actually work out trades to move up, down, into the 1st rounds as they desire without holding up the draft.
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I'm down for anything that gets us through this lull that is the offseason draft.
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I am on board with moving the draft.
Do not see any real value in adding rounds though.
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i say auto the whole thing :)
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I'm just curious if anything came from this. Are we closer to getting draft in season?
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I'm just curious if anything came from this. Are we closer to getting draft in season?
I'll do some more research. I'd like to move forward with moving the draft for the 2030 draft if it will work out.
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I still think this would be a great thing for us to keep things moving each offseason.
Any new thoughts or opinions?
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I am with you - I like the idea of the draft during the season.
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The draft takes longer and longer every off-season and becomes painfully slow. This needs to be moved to during the season, somehow, some way.
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Agree, it needs to be during season.
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I'm going to be working on a plan to get our Amateur Draft moved to mid-season. Nothing will be changed for the 2030 draft but I strongly believe that we need to make this adjustment to avoid 2-3 week periods of downtime each offseason.
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Revisiting this as well..
I think we can keep drafting at the end of the Regular Season if we can get the draft done within 7-10 days. In order for this to happen, all teams need to be alert of where the draft is and be prepared to either make their pick in a timely matter, have enough players in their list to cover until their pick plus 1 more, or set themselves to auto pick.
I would be open to finding a way to draft during the season if that is something we want to look into again as we did awhile back but didn't.
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Still down for this in the regular season. We could use that extra week to play games as there is such a lull during the offseason.
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Any thoughts to work on a solution to accomplish this? This could decrease the Offseason time from 7-10 days to just a few. I'm fine with either keeping things as is or moving it to during the following season from right after the current season.
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Yep, I am good to move the draft during the regular season...
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I think we should just leave it alone. Change the timer to 3-6 hours in the early rounds and 1 hour in the later rounds. If you are that interested in picking, make a list, it is not that hard, or just auto it.
In another league, if you missed your turn on the clock , you were skipped until you got back on. That really forced folks into getting a list or auto.
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Hopefully the use of statsplus will help push the draft faster given the slack updates.
I'm all for reduced clock time too, however being in a different time zone I'd appreciate a clock no shorter than 8hrs :)
However, something which might work well in this league is 'wave' drafting. Kind of as follows:
While in the playoffs we draft as far as possible, then set specific times to process 4 or 5 picks e.g.
6pm: 5 picks
7pm: 5 picks
8pm: 5 picks
9pm: 5 picks
Then after those 4hrs we just keep drafting until the same time the next day when more picks are processed if we haven't reached those picks during the downtime.